Hugh Glass Knife

[redrock]

  I'm contracted to build a Hugh Glass knife that he carried and used to defend himself from the Grizzly Bear attack.   What would the hunter for a traping party carry for a knife in 1823?

[trapwise]

My guess, and it is just a guess, would be a Wilson butcher knife or scalper. 

[Badger]

I have been researching Hugh Glass for a presentation this summer at Ft Union. While discussing this very question with Dr. Jim Hanson at the Museum of the Fur Trade, Dr Hanson pointed out that Hugh must have carried a unique knife because it was one of the items in possesion of the Arikaras that Gardiner recognized when they realized that Hugh must have finally gone under. A typical trade knife would not have drawn notice. Unfortunately, not even Dr Hanson has a clue what it might have been. Sorry. If you come across anything credible, I also would like to know. BTW, what are you making it for? Just curious.

Badger

[redrock]

I've read several books about Hugh and his life as a pirate (captive forced) and a Pawnee slave prior to his life as a fur trade employee makes me believe that he valued the knife in his belt as much as his rifle, so does that mean he learned from his dealings with the French and Spanish blades/hunting swords, influenced what he would carry on a expedition?

[Badger]

Hard to say what he carried over from one part of his life to another. Example- he is the adopted son of a Pawnee chief and highly regarded on his own merit by his adopted people and then just walks away to join Ashley. Also, after escaping from his pirate captors, why didn't he return to the East and his former life? Hugh seems to have spent his entire life looking for something that I don't think he ever found. His life lead him from the Atlantic Ocean to the Rocky Mountains and from the Upper Missouri to the Desert Southwest. What was he looking for? Or running from? We will likely never know. That said, regarding the influences on his choice of edged weapon, nothing would surprise me about old Hugh.

[redrock]

Prior to the departure for his upper mo experience, I would speculate that he may have had a Cutler in St Louis (one of good reputation) build him a 'Bear Knife' not knowing his his near future.... speculation of course entirely. Next is to research all known Cutler's in the St Louis area from 1815-?. Worth a look.

[redrock]

For fun,
Say I am a successful 1822 St Louis cutler working on a custom order for a client headed to the mouth of the Yellowstone on a fur trading expidition,
What would be the belt knife choice of Mr Glass?
This is for the sake of pure conjecture mind you...

[Badger]

Not to say that Glass did or did not carry one, but, I personally would favor a small trade knife for general use and a large heavy Spanish belduque for self defense. That would be my preference but who knows. He could have had a lot of things but guessing and conjecturing is not sound research technique. Without solid documentation we are merely spitting in the wind. . It is kind of fun though. Lol

[trapwise]

Thank you, Badger, for a sensible post.

[redrock]

So when the research trail ends and the question is yet to be answered, how would YOU proceed?
At the end of the day I must build the knife and I would prefer it to be as correct as possible.

[Badger]

I honestly don't know how to proceed with your customer's nearly impossible request. Obviously, you could replicate a large knife ca. 1820 and explain that it is an example of something representative of the period but not Hugh's exact knife. Is your customer so unwavering and unrealistic as to insist on creating something from nothing? I, too, wish we knew more about such a strong and dynamic character from our beloved past but the truth is we don't. Period. I wish you luck, sir.

Respectfully,
Badger

[trapwise]

If I were in your unenviable position I would tell the customer that no one knows what Hugh Glass carried when mauled by the bear.  Offer to build a custom knife correct for the time and location and they can call it what they please.  I think in the absence of evidence to the contrary the safest choice would be what was most common.  But they probably aren't interested in a copy of an English made trade knife.

[redrock]

Exactly where I'm at, customer is very understanding, it is what it is, if you can find it in your research great, if not what is your best guess. None will attempt in anyway to sell or pawn it off as Hughs knife.
Okay back to my original question since no absolute answer exists, what should I build? My month of research leads me to believe that it wasn't a common everyday trade blade?? Sooooo thinking along the lines of a 8 1/2" gaurdless full tang 'Bear' knife of French influence... I'm spitballing and look to you experts in such things for a little direction.

[Badger]

Since we are just talking about knives available in St Louis in the early 1820s, I would think that 3 likely options exist. 1 common trade knife (although not very impressive for your needs). 2 French influenced dagger, as you mentioned 3 Heavy Spanish belduque (my personal favorite) But in the end, it is merely speculation on all of our parts. Redrock, I will give you a call in the next few days regarding your pm.

[Badger]

Just came across something to consider. Have a look at the knife in Chuck's post on this forum called "Sometimes plain can be". Good looking knife representative of what we are talking about.