Pare
Mountaineer
Posts: 153
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Post by Pare on Aug 25, 2013 21:11:28 GMT -7
In trying to be as correct as we can, do we use our imagination when it comes to making bags? Or do we copy an existing bag or one from a description or from a sketch/painting? Were there actually bags with either fur or beaver tail(s) sewn onto the flaps? Are there bags with knives attached to the back? Were there quilled or elaborately beaded bags used by trappers? What about bags with a totally different type of strap, i.e.; made of rawhide, wool tape, hemp rope, or even finger woven. I'm not singling out anyone, but I've seen these types of bags and am just wondering about the documentation on them. I think a bag design can be as unlimited as the maker's imagination. Especially if made in the mountains in between rendezvous or at winter quarters.
I hope that didn't sound like I'm trying to be a smart-@$$, because I'm not trying to be... Just curious about bags, that's all.
Pare-
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isaac
Mountaineer
Posts: 331
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Post by isaac on Aug 26, 2013 6:38:27 GMT -7
Bags are and interesting and difficult subject. Unlike a lot of things, the do not show in the archaeological record, and they are not very well described in the written record. Depending on the period and persona, they also are not very well shown in the pictorial record. I do mainly earlier french stuff and unfortunately there are few images of voyageurs and especially of them with bags. For mountaineers... there are at least a few images. As far as extant bags... there are some but the provenance of so many is sketchy at best. Anyway, I will give two thoughts, one for the mountaineer (based on my limited research of this subject) and one on my current thoughts for my personal pouch... For the mountaineer.... I have not done a lot of research as this is not my specific area, but there are images showing them in Miller and a few other painters. Most seem rather plain and of home made/native made construction. Some appear to have fringe, and some have decoration of some sort (quill or bead?). There is one image that shows a striped bag that is likely striped fabric. I am less certain of the written record on this subject and the extant artifacts. Were it me, I would stick to a simple rounded bottom pouch, maybe with a little fringe and at most, a couple simple lines of bead or quill, like shown in Miller (and similar to other native bags in existence). My current bag is a simple rounded bottom bag with the uber-common box-braided cord for a strap (this is very common on Ojibwe, Cree, and Metis powderhorns and bags). It has two rows of simple quill similar to a few native bags and the miller images and I put there to reflect the style of the two-panelled bags that are common on the Metis and N. Ojibwe and Cree. Currently, I a construction a simple one of these bags with loomed quills to replace the current bag as I think it would be more correct. This style of bag shows up in the art of Paul Kane, Peter Rindisbacher, and others depicting Metis and northern tribes NW of the Great Lakes and on the Red River. The earliest of these bags that I am aware of was owned by an HBC man that got it in the mid 1700s and I know of NWCo men that had them too (Harmon had one his wife made for him that is now in a museum collection in CT, IIRC). Here is the thought process and some images I used when making my current bag (to be replaced by the better loomed panel bag when I get around to finishing it... frenchinwisconsin.com/2012/04/a-new-bag-and-horn-strap/The start of my new bag (hardly a start)... frenchinwisconsin.com/2013/04/quillwork-on-a-loom/ |
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Pare
Mountaineer
Posts: 153
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Post by Pare on Aug 26, 2013 16:03:45 GMT -7
Well said, Ike and good information. That's a nice bag, too.
Maybe I should start another thread. I feel this doesn't just include bags; but most everything we have & use.
Pare-
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isaac
Mountaineer
Posts: 331
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Post by isaac on Aug 26, 2013 17:14:00 GMT -7
Well said, Ike and good information. That's a nice bag, too. Maybe I should start another thread. I feel this doesn't just include bags; but most everything we have & use. Pare- Indeed, however, bags are oddly a prime case. There is a weird lack of info on them and a lot of assumptions and plain ol' fantasy as well. |
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Post by squirrelhunter on Sept 1, 2013 16:10:17 GMT -7
i am fond of double bags but have never seen any documentation of them being used. anyway here is a double bag i made recently,heavy linen canvas,flap is made of elk skin and beaver tail backed with deer skin.  |
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Pare
Mountaineer
Posts: 153
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Post by Pare on Sept 1, 2013 22:42:02 GMT -7
That's a nice bag and horn.
Welcome to the group.
Pare-
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