Phillip Creamer Rifle

[sean]

Folks,

For those of you who are not familiar with Phillip Creamer. He was a gunsmith who moved from Maryland to the St. Louis area in 1809 and worked there on both sides of the river until his death in the late 1840's. Creamer produced guns and blacksmith goods for the Indian factory system prior to its closure in the 1820's. One of his apprentices was none other than Jim Bridger prior to his joining the Ashely-Henry Expedition. Creamer did work for Robert Campbell and apparently produced a fine rifle for him prior to his 1832 trip west. See Campbell's account books for info on this:

www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/campacct.html

Anyway, existing rifles by Creamer are somewhat rare. I've seen a few pistols signed by him and a fowler or two, but up to this point I have only seen one plain rifle signed by Creamer that Bridger is suspected to have had a hand in. Then Chuck sent me this link the other day. Check it out. Its a really cool Maryland-influenced longrifle. I just might have to see if it is still in the museum in OK City and make a trip to see it.

books.google.com/books?id=MY7jSgKlc14C&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=phillip+creamer+gunsmith&source=bl&ots=DkWxZvh7zm&sig=fz0i4gLF5TXWL6-yB3PA-_Al8dg&hl=en&ei=NMgPTeSGKJPSsAPrqJWXCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAQ#v=twopage&q&f=false

The description is on page 110 and the pictures are on 111. There's a bunch of other cool stuff in this book if you want to leaf through it. You gotta love Google Books.

Enjoy,

Sean

[dgras]

I spent a weekend at a gun show sitting across from the plain Creamer rifle you talked about. It really gave time to think about such a plain guns by such a talented builder. The more I looked more questions came to mind. Why move to the Illinois wilderness? Was the East so overloaded that taking a job as a government gunsmith/blacksmith was a better life. Does this gun show how they were built to meet the local market needs, no need to compete with much carving or inlays. I found the sideplate interesting as it appeared to have been shaped like a serpent from a NW gun. It now has been filled with lead or pewter. I believe these guns are very important in representing true western fur trade rifles. Would'nt a reproduction of this make a great rifle!!

[sean]

Dale,

If you have any pictures of the Creamer "J?B" gun beyond those in the short booklet that Curt Johnson put out, I would love to see them.

As to your question:

Does this gun show how they were built to meet the local market needs, no need to compete with much carving or inlays.

I tend to think that the J?B gun represents something that Creamer would've made for the factory system prior to 1820. It may have even been a restock of parts that came into his shop. In general, the bigger gunsmith operations of Lancaster, Philly, and Hagerstown were turning out rifles that were so cheap and so plentiful that they were difficult to compete with. In addition most of the hard goods dealers in STL were buying their wares in the east and shipping them there. I've always suspected that smaller gunsmiths in the STL area had to offer a product that was beyond the norm to compete with the $9-14 trade rifle market. Thus we see the Hawken Brothers focusing on percussion ignition and stylistic features taken from higher end English game rifles. The majority of Phillip Creamer's surviving work is well above the norm for trade guns, as well. Of course this is all a hypothesis worth less than the paper I've written it on. However, we should remember that labor was amazingly cheap during the period in relation to the cost of materials. Even orders for treaty rifles by the US gov for frontier tribes requested such frillies as engraved brass patch boxes, engraved silver inlays on the wrist and cheek, and often checkered wrists.

That's all my $0.02. Don't spend it all in one place.

Happy New Year.

Sean

[dgras]

Sorry, but my photos are gone with a computer crash. I hope to rebuild a photo collection this winter rephotographing guns as I see them. I agree with you $.02 worth. The Illinois gun is so plain it is hard to accept as Creamer's work so the restock and apprentice theory make a lot of sense. So much intriguing speculation on most guns used on the early western frontier. Like you said our modern view of quality, ie: engraving, carving, etc. was often just a typical part of construction and expected, higher quality at the time may have finer work and more expensive materials, as is seen in some of the Creamer pistols. He must have had a high reputation as Jackson owned one and his pistols are mentioned by name . I hope others can add to this subject of rifles offered for sale along the ohio river and mississippi valley. I often think about some of the Ohio river makers and their similarity in style to STL makers and shared parts. Thanks for the site, this keeps us in the far north connected when we are snowed in til spring.

[sean]

Dale,

You mentioned the sideplate on that JAB gun. I cannot make out much of it in any of the photos I have of the gun. Can you tell us anything about it? You said it was similar to a NW gun. That makes me wonder if it wasn't a sideplate taken off one of the imported English 'flat serpent' fowlers. The picture in Curt and Vic's booklet sorta suggests it may have been one of these with the front bolt hole trimmed off. I'll try to get a decent scan of that picture up here soon for this discussion.

Sean

[dgras]

I am going from memory, but I thought the sideplate profile was similar to the forward shape of a later styled NW gun with the undulating snake like body and head, but I do not think the rear portion had the loop like the NW gun. The ca sting could have been reshaped, OR a completely flat ,unique, sideplate with the outline of the serpent only??? Maybe appealing to native tastes??? Sorry, more guessing on my part and a fading memory.
But, a good reason to rephotograph if possible.
Dale