A couple of Deringers

[sean]

Here's a couple of Deringer for Mark Horvat (fellow Deringer fan) and others here. Note that these don't have one of the two types of eagle-head patchboxes commonly seen on Deringer rifles. The first is a civilian rifle with about a 3 1/2' swamped octagon barrel. I believe the bore in the neighborhood of .58 if I recall correctly. Based on the hardware I wouls guess this to be one of the earlier existing Henry Deringer rifles dating around 1809-1815. Note the checkered wrist and military contract type box with engraving.




The second gun went up for auction recently and was billed as an 1814 military contract rifle. Note that it has the same box finial sans engraving, but has a 38" octagon/round barrel with wedding rings. This is another example of how contract smiths often mixed parts between military and commercial contracts. Other Deringer examples of this include the is a Pennsylvania militia gun published in Gordon's book with a small eaglehead patchbox and Deringer's use of 1816 musket locks on a 1839 contract for smoothbore treaty guns.




Enjoy,

Sean

[Lloyd]

Sean,
You sure are muddying the waters....

The more of this stuff you post, the less sure I am of what kind of gun I want to make for myself....

[Mark]

Lloyd, you took the words right out of my keyboard.

[Longarm]

Sean, The contract guns cheek piece is interesting, almost not there. Love the trigger guard!

[Duane]

I am getting to realy like these Deringers,Are there any builders out there who can make a good copy of them..

[sean]

Duane,

Don Pitch up in Crow Agency, MT used to do an occasional Deringer rifle. I confess I've never seen one of his Deringers, and I do not know if he is still building rifles. Any smith worth his salt can do one of these if they have the appropriate information. That's really the hard part. There are tons of publications out there on Lancaster builders and smiths from other areas of PA, but info on Deringer rifles has been pretty hard to find. Henry Deringer doesn't get a lot of mileage with modern students of the long rifle because he is viewed as a 'factory' builder. The reality is that his guns were build the same way Jacob Dickert and others built their guns. He just built more of them and sold them in mass.

Deringer's guns also display a lot of variability because he was hiring on what were termed 'inmate gunsmiths' from all over PA and beyond. An inmate gunsmith was someone who had gone through their apprentiship and received journeyman status, but who worked for another builder. This was common across PA and across the era of the longrifle. The resulting guns might have influences from many schools. Deringer began turning out large numbers of guns for government contracts in 1809 and among his earliest guns, I cannot recall two that appear to be stocked along the same pattern. Many of the early guns were quite curvy displaying influences from the Lehigh, North Hampton, and Berks regions. By the late 20's and early 30's the degree of comb curvature was much more subtle and stock patterns in general were becoming more similar. By the 40's, Deringer was turning out very straight stocked guns along a pattern similar to Leman's guns.

As far as sources on Deringers, I give you a list here. It won't be complete though:

1) Most recently, one was posted on the ALR forums virtual museum. This is a truly great resource that anyone interested in long rifles should check out:
americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=12799.0

2) The book 'For Trade and Treaty' by Ryan Gale has detailed, color photos and measurements of a small eaglehead patchbox rifle.

3) Jim Gordon's Massive 3 volume coffee table set 'Great Gunmakers for the Early West' has color photos of a large collection of Deringer rifles. Jim probably currently has about as many Deringer rifles as any collector.

4) There are a couple of Deringer pictured in Garavaglia and Worman's book Firearms of the American West 1803-1865.

5) Shumway has one written up with photos in his Longrifle Articles Volume 1.

That's all I can think of at the moment. I have hopes that Jim Hanson's forthcoming book on firearms of the Indian trade will add some info on Deringers. Other than that, keep your eyes on the online auction houses. That's where the two pictured in my original post came from.

Sean

[Mark]

Sean,

I sold a smoothbore recently and plan on rolling those funds over into another smoothbore and a "Deringer". But I want to do some carving and engraving. I have not seen example of Deringers having any carving. Consequently I have been studying photos of similar gunsmiths. There are many many out there that are very close to each other. NBeyer, Dickert, etc. etc. So I guess I will call this new gun a NBeyer instead of a Deringer. Going to go with a 44' barrel and 32 balls to the pound and a late Ketland lock.

Mark

[sean]

Mark,

I cannot recall seeing a Deringer with carving, other than this one:

morphyauctions.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=31120&weid=8879&weiid=3163101&keyword=flintlock&lso=lotnumasc&pagenum=1&lang=En

It was referred to in the description as an 'in-period restock' and the incised carving was described as 'likely a modern addition'. I would have to get a better look at this gun to assess that, but even given the variety I've seen in Deringer rifles there are still some things about this gun that seem a bit off for a Deringer. The barrel stamp is legit, though.

Sean

[Mark]

Sean, finally ordered parts for my long awaited Derringer. Only I think I should call it a Nicolas Beyer, because I am going to carve the rifle. I settled on 44", 32 balls to the pound. I'll work the modified Roman nose down to where it is even more sutle. Dave Keck of Knob Mtn. is suppling the parts. Tried to order from Tip Curtis, but you do things Tip's way or the highway. I took the highway.

I have probably located at photos of thousands, well maybe hundreds, of guns over the last few months. There are a lot of gunsmith where their work, at least in photos, looks alike. No surprises there.

Mark

[sean]

Mark,
I had a similar experience with Tip recently. I went with the highway too. He has good stuff, but if you want something a little different, it can be difficult to express over the phone and he has no website or catalog. Build the gun you want.

Sean

[Mark]

Sean,

I finally have my Deringer/N.Beyer finished and functional. I added carving behind the cheek piece and at the comb. She is otherwise very close ( I think) to the Deringer's I have photos of, must of which you sent me.

I use the Colerain 44", .54 Heritage barrel and the Figthorn/Reedy stock profile, all from Dave Keck of Knob Mtn. All hardware from Keck. Simple trigger I made.

Once I take some photos maybe I can send them to you to post here.

Mark