isaac
Mountaineer
Posts: 331
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Post by isaac on Apr 24, 2012 11:54:07 GMT -7
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Post by Chuck Burrows on Apr 24, 2012 12:57:45 GMT -7
Very cool Ike and Miller does in fact show quite a number of bags with narrow straps so I'd say this more like a refined "guess" or better an extrapolation of the known facts... BTW - Rufus Sage noted the metis style bags being attached to the belt in front . His waist is encircled with a belt of leather, holding encased his butcher-knife and pistols—while from his neck is suspended a bullet-pouch securely fastened to the belt in front, and beneath the right arm hangs a powder-horn transversely from his shoulder, behind which, upon the strap attached to it, are affixed his bullet-mould, ball-screw, wiper, awl, &c. user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/documentation.html |
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isaac
Mountaineer
Posts: 331
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Post by isaac on Apr 24, 2012 13:20:30 GMT -7
Very cool Ike and Miller does in fact show quite a number of bags with narrow straps so I'd say this more like a refined "guess" or better an extrapolation of the known facts... I agree... I think I have enough info and thought into it to indeed call it a "refined guess or better an extrapolation of the known facts." Still... I am shooting for 1790-1810 WESTERN Great Lakes guy (with a fair bit of western influence) and not a RMF trapper. I feel a bit safe (enough to make and use it) but it is still not based on something concrete solid.  IW |
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isaac
Mountaineer
Posts: 331
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Post by isaac on Apr 24, 2012 13:21:44 GMT -7
BTW... do you have any other Miller images of these bags. I looked through what I have on my computer and could only really find the one that seems to show these stripes.
Thanks!
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Post by Chuck Burrows on Apr 24, 2012 14:31:50 GMT -7
commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=Alfred+Jacob+Miller+&button=&title=Special%3ASearchScroll down through the various pics and you'll find some others - some are more rectangular while others are D-Dhaped, some with beaded or quilled stripes others more plain. And yep Miller is of course 1837 (or later), but in general the shapes and sizes seem to match the earlier NDN and Metis stuff from western great lakes - of course trade between the upper Missouri tribes and tribes to the east as well as to the south and west, had been going on for a long time. That striped deco on bags of various types was popular all over the northern and central plains and continued so well into the latter 1800's, especially on so-called tipi bags aka saddle bags. Always found it interesting that when L & C reached the Shoshoni in SW Montana they found one of the tomahawks that Sheets had made for the Mandan during the first winter was already there ahead of them. Also L & C found Spanish goods amongst the Upper Missouri tribes that had been traded north via the Utes to the Shoshonis to the Crows to the Hidatsa, etc. Have you ever read Laroque's journal from 1805? user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/larocque.html
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isaac
Mountaineer
Posts: 331
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Post by isaac on Apr 25, 2012 9:46:33 GMT -7
Yup... Laroque is great! It was spending some time west and reading Wood and Theissen's book of journals (including Laroque) that got me hooked on Western stuff again... and wanting to incorporate more of it into my earlier Great Lakes impression (a lot of back and forth historically).
IW
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Post by Rod on Apr 25, 2012 22:31:37 GMT -7
The fun thing for me about LaRoque is reading his descriptions of the land as he's traveling back to the Mandan/Hidatsa villages along the Yellowstone. When he leaves the Yellowstone, he first camps at the mouth of a small creek that flows into the Yellowstone--that's today's Charbonneau Creek. He ascends a hill and can see the Missouri/Yellowstone confluence to the north---I can climb that same hill and see the same view. He then turns up the creek---and travels directly through what's now my land, probably passing directly over what will eventually become the location of my house.
That's one of the things I love about history---being able to make that connection with the past really does it for me.
Rod
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isaac
Mountaineer
Posts: 331
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Post by isaac on Apr 26, 2012 6:16:49 GMT -7
I can climb that same hill and see the same view. He then turns up the creek---and travels directly through what's now my land, probably passing directly over what will eventually become the location of my house. Alright... party at Rod's house. I will bring a tarp and blanket... who's bringing the buffalo hump ribs!  |
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Post by blackhand on Apr 26, 2012 9:52:03 GMT -7
I think I can come up with marrow-bones...
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Post by Rod on Apr 26, 2012 20:31:21 GMT -7
Hey, whoever brings hump ribs and marrow bones is always welcome at my place!
Rod
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Post by Chuck Burrows on Apr 27, 2012 7:32:07 GMT -7
Well I won;t make i that far north but ya'll have a good time anyway! Rod - I'm on the other end of the trail so to speak. About 100' out my front door is the Old Spanish Trail, part of the trade route network that got those Spanish beads and other goods Laroque noted, to the Crow via the Utes (I live on the So Ute Rez) and Shoshonis. This is a pic of the trail (just this side of the river and the cottonwoods) taken from up the hill above where I live  The River is El Rio de las Animas Perdidas - River of Lost Souls which runs south and empties into the San Juan and then into the Colorado. |
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