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Post by sean on Aug 11, 2010 18:31:10 GMT -7
Never heard of this guy, but he really did a great job on this pre-War of 1812 NW Gun. He nailed all the little details from the slim stock architecture with increased drop and long beaver tailed lock panels, to the unbridled lock, the fit and finish, the buttplate. You rarely see anybody build a NW gun that departs from the standard of what's available today. This gun is a ringer for some of the 1800-1810 era NW guns I have seen. A lot of original NW guns shoulder like a 2x4 to me. These things come up like a fine English bird gun. Anyone who ever handles one of these original Barnetts from this era will never talk about NW guns being crappy Indian guns. They are just slick. contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2010/08/northwest-trade-gun-made-by-cam.htmlSean |
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Lloyd
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Post by Lloyd on Aug 11, 2010 22:36:31 GMT -7
Back in the early 1980's I made a batch of NW Trade Guns... I was making them for Joe Williams (The Gun Works). He would furnish me with parts to make 3 and 2 of them were his.... Got one heck of a lot of Trade Guns out there with L. Moler on the top flat...  One of my guns took the Left Coast Trade Gun match several years in a row... Anyhow, because of all the Trade Guns I was doing, in about 1984, the High Desert museum brought me a Barnett that needed restoration bad.... Everything was there, but the wood had dry rot in the worst way... I fixed it using a substance that boat restorers use to fix dry rot.... Then replaced the wood that was missing and did my paint job to hide the repairs... (I painted 19 pieces of new wood on a fowler a couple of years ago and the folks at the Oregon Gun Fair could not find the repairs and they didn't know it was painted.....) Just being able to hold that Barnett was great... I wanted to take it out and shoot it, but knowing the condition of the wood, I was afraid it would crumble into a pile of sawdust... Since then, I have restored several more Trade Guns, none Barnetts... (I have accumulated enough original parts, sans stock, to construct one if I decide to... If I can only get 5 or 6 inches of an original stock, then I can claim it is a restoration.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D That's what the big guys do...  ) And yes, an early trade gun be it a Northwest Gun or a Type G Carolina Gun (the last custom gun that left my shop) they handle like a quality fowler... I think Curly G. started folks to thinking they were clubs with barrels and locks.... |
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Post by Rod on Aug 12, 2010 5:05:13 GMT -7
Back in 2006, when I last visited the Museum of the Fur Trade, Jim Hanson and I fell to talking trade guns---he went over to the display cases, slid back the glass, and started handing me guns. Those early NW guns are so light and skinny it almost defies belief---the later ones are much more robust. I've got to wonder if stock breakage was a reason they beefed up the stock in later guns. One of the ones I handled had a wrist that must have been just over an inch or so in diameter, it's a wonder it survived so long (from the late 1700s, as I recall).
Rod
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Lloyd
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Post by Lloyd on Aug 12, 2010 9:19:56 GMT -7
Rod,
I went back there in the 80's to see the trade guns for a study I was making on them... Charlie was still alive and there and he did the same thing with me... That was the great awakening for me.... I think you get a complete new outlook when you get to hold the originals...
Oh, yes, Frank Straight who started Green River Forge in Washington state (they were one of the first to make a good copy of a Barnett) had an original Barnett hanging over his fireplace in Belleview, WA.... One time when I was visiting he took that one down and let me finger it too...
I am pretty sure that the guns got beefier because they were so fragile... Those skinny wrist and thin forearms were fine back east, but when you got on a horse out west, they won't last very long...
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Post by tcalbert on Aug 12, 2010 10:43:35 GMT -7
Cam is a long time gunmaker and CLA member from Canada... when I corresponded with him about the guns details for the articles about it, he said that he owns several original early trade guns, and had them at hand to be sure the details were just right on the gun he donated to the auction...thats the gun shown on the blog. I stated in the articles that it was about as close to genuine PC as a guy was likely to ever find in a contemporary "early" N.W. trade gun these days for sure...Im glad to hear you say similar things about it too Sean..
TC
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Post by davedolliver on Aug 17, 2010 14:21:40 GMT -7
I helped Frank Straight with his Green River Forge trade gun kit and gun. There's one of his in the visitor center at Bonneville dam. The original he had was apparently a Belgian piece.
Just a couple of years ago a friend turned up a Chance relic at a garage sale. He got stock, butt plate, trigger and plate, and ramrod pipes. London stamp on barrel, circle-fox on stock and tombstone fox over IA on barrel---for $75! Said he probably could have bargained to $50 but he wanted it so bad he didn't try!
We fit a repro Brown Bess lock, hand made trigger guard, brass dragon, and ram rod; it looks great. The dragon was bigger than anything on the market so we had to carve our own from sheet brass.
They're still out there!!!
Dave Dolliver
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Aug 21, 2010 21:41:10 GMT -7
Im fixin to build me a .62 smoothbore to hunt with ,what is the powder load yall use for it and what would be the proper squirril shot and buckshot load?
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Post by skillman on Aug 21, 2010 22:25:35 GMT -7
I believe it was 2005(maybe Dave can correct me) we had 13 original trade guns on display and to handle and Bill Holms as our guest speaker. Ted Fellowes had an original there that was almost perfect. The amazing thing was how light and "handy" they all were. Anyone who thinks they were clubs just has not handled an original.
Steve
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Post by whitehair on Aug 22, 2010 7:33:21 GMT -7
Cody, We really should have started a new threat to talk about loads, so maybe the list managers will move your question and this reply. For birdshot loads I favor just 60 grains of powder under a load of shot "scooped" with a 75 grain powder measure. I use this same loading in both 20 gauge and 24 gauge guns. That's not the heaviest load and others here might favor heavier powder charges and shot loads as well. At the same time, I don't think those heavier loads add anything to hits or performance. You, of course, will have to try some yourself. In general, keep your powder charges either less than or equal to volumn of shot being used. Too much powder will blow your patterns wide opened. As for buckshot, I use #4 buck in my 20 gauge. The pellets are arranged in 5 layers of 4 pellets each. That can make a good load for "guard duty" or something like that but I do not recommend using buckshot for deer hunting. For any big game, use a patched round ball, for sure. Shoot sharp's the word, Mike
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Cody
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Post by Cody on Aug 22, 2010 20:36:37 GMT -7
Thanks Pard ,now that you mention it I could probly hit anything with a patched ball in a smoothbore that I could kill with buckshot .Thanks a million for the information
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isaac
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Post by isaac on Nov 28, 2012 7:19:15 GMT -7
NHe nailed all the little details from the slim stock architecture with increased drop and long beaver tailed lock panels, to the unbridled lock, the fit and finish, the buttplate. You rarely see anybody build a NW gun that departs from the standard of what's available today. This gun is a ringer for some of the 1800-1810 era NW guns I have seen. Hello Sean and all, I am currently working at getting my ducks in a row so I can do a 1790-1800s NW gun. I have been looking at some books and discussing this with others, but figured I would ask here as well to see what I could get for info or clarify in my head. What are the "little detail" as well as the bigger ones that need to be "nailed" to make a NW gun correct for this earlier period? Isaac |
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Mark
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Post by Mark on Nov 28, 2012 7:58:06 GMT -7
Issac, it may be a little later than your time frame, but I use "For Trade and Treaty" for the little details in making trade guns. The photos are many and up close. Other than having one in your hands while building, it is the next best resource. Let me know if you need any help, to date I have over 130 guns out in the hinderland.
Mark
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isaac
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Posts: 331
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Post by isaac on Nov 28, 2012 8:05:45 GMT -7
Issac, it may be a little later than your time frame, but I use "For Trade and Treaty" for the little details in making trade guns. The photos are many and up close. Other than having one in your hands while building, it is the next best resource. Let me know if you need any help, to date I have over 130 guns out in the hinderland. Mark Thanks Mark... that is one of the few books I have that is of any help. That Willets gun in there is the earliest of what I am REALLY looking for (I should add I am interested in NWCo, not HBC or others) and there are a couple 1812 era ones there that are nice, but starting to seem a bit "later" in some details. |
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isaac
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Post by isaac on Nov 28, 2012 8:07:28 GMT -7
I should add that I would love to see a few more 1790-1800 or a bit later ones to compare to the Willets to know whether some of the features I see as different on it are particular to that gun or were common of the period.
IW
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Post by Rod on Nov 28, 2012 8:13:52 GMT -7
For Trade & Treaty is good, and affordable. Hanson's Encyclopedia of Trade Goods: Firearms is a great reference, but pricey. Gordon's Great Gunmakers for the Early West has great multi-shot pics of various NW guns---but is very pricey. I have to go to the Ft. Union library to look through that set.
Rod
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